Talk:Ideas and Suggestions for the Future 5th Outpost
We need ideas, critiques, and even questions that may not have been answered so far. Because the page is young, many important aspects are in need to be worked out. The more we all contribute the better it might be for all of us. Zith Melle (talk) 04:49, April 20, 2013 (UTC) First attempt of 5th Outpost: http://fairview.deadfrontier.com/onlinezombiemmo/index.php?topic=778591.msg13237423#msg13237423 Zith Melle (talk) 05:43, April 10, 2013 (UTC) I'm thinking that if there WERE a fifth outpost, its AI guards might be labelled individually as "Patrolman" or better yet, "Sentry". For the name of this hypothetical fifth outpost, I'd like to propose "Waystation Cassandra". ShadowMage ~ DF Wiki Admin & semi-1337 SWAGmaster (talk) 13:57, April 11, 2013 (UTC) We need something "original" in regards to what we had on the previous 4 Outposts, focusing on the Outposts, and the guards. Zith Melle (talk) 20:24, April 19, 2013 (UTC) http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/machine/usa/1329578391.jpg One of these? Griever0311 (talk) 03:59, April 20, 2013 (UTC) I was getting at how ludicrous it was. GAU-19. The three-barrel 12.7x99mm rotary gun with a fire rate of 2000 rounds per minute (more than a human can carry; .50 cal ammo comes belted in heavy-ass 100-round ammo cans that you'd be good to fit three to a backpack), 63-kilograms (without counting ammunition), almost a meter and a half long, with enough recoil to knock anything smaller than a large gorilla on its ass. Oh, and also the massive 20-kilo battery needed to power it (which combined with their massive weight, and the weight of the ammunition needed to sustain one is why you see them mounted on vehicles; I could get into other reasons they're not used by dismounted personnel, but that's more of a wall post thing). Griever0311 (talk) 04:26, April 20, 2013 (UTC) I don't really understand what the "sugestion"should be about,is that where we make sugestions where the outpost should be,how the guards should be armed etc..or something else?Werozx the extreminator (talk) 15:39, April 20, 2013 (UTC)werozx It's really nothing more than a truly massive amount of fanwank at the moment. Griever0311 (talk) 21:15, April 20, 2013 (UTC) THE ENTRANCE (no more kuratas) BECAUSE OF THE FEEDBACK: Having 2 Kuratas-looking mechs at each entrance is not appealing. This will also lead to some changes to the actual fanwank page... GUARDS' DETAILS: Having people (NPCs) with good weapons guarding the entrance sounds like a good. However, although not against that idea, there should be certain aspects of that Outpost which will make all of this look more apealing and even original as well as contrasting previous Outposts. Here I suggest some things (which you are all free to eviscerate): _Have 2 Guards (EXAMPLE: "sentries") at each of the 2 entrances. _Make each Guard be on top of a "high ground" (kind of like an small tower, but NOT a tower). The "high ground" will be behind the THICK walls of the Outpost, however they will be able to shoot down infected from there without a problem. _The Guards will all be using heavy weaponry, however these will not be equiped, rather they will be mounted on the "high ground". BTW, SHALL WE ERASE THE WHOLE "LOL KURATAS" SECTION IN THIS PAGE? SEEING AS WE ALL AGREE THAT KURATAS ARE A "NO-GO" IN REGARDS TO BEING THE OUTPOST GUARDS. :3 Names for suggestions? Kuratas...hmm. It does not sound very relevant to have some thing like that in a post apocalyptic world filled with zombies.But I think most of us agree, Kuratas are set aside for the time. Now,... about the names for the Fifth outpost. Before we can actually give it any name, I think its best we study the names of the four outposts first to give us more ideas on how adminpwn actually name them. 3 outpost includes the leaders name: *Nastya`s Holdout *Doggs Stockade *Fort Pastor Only Precint 13 is the outpost without Chief Jackson`s name. Now, lets look at what do the names of the outpost mean. The definition of Percint #a. A subdivision or district of a city or town under the jurisdiction of or patrolled by a specific unit of its police force. #The police station situated in and having jurisdiction over such a district. # A place or enclosure marked off by definite limits, such as walls. #precincts=The neighborhood or surrounding area; the environs. # An area of thought or action; a province or domain. The definition of Fort # A fortified place or position stationed with troops. # A permanent army post. The Definition of Stockade #A defensive barrier made of strong posts or timbers driven upright side by side into the ground. #A similar fenced or enclosed area, especially one used for protection. #A a penal camp where political prisoners or prisoners of war are confined (usually under harsh conditions) I couldn`t find the actual meaning of Holdout sadly. It`s used more as a verb rather than a noun. Now, even with all the meaning I honestly still can`t think of a nice name. I had funny names popped out of my mind like Underworld or Hell`s Gate. Lol, stupid names. ''But I had an idea, from the game Fallout.....'............. The VAULT A Vault is a type of subterranean installation designed by Vault-Tec. Officially, they were designed for the sole purpose of sheltering up to one thousand dwellers from a nuclear holocaust, but in reality, they were a secret experiment created by the government. ''However this is part of an information from the game. (unverified)'' ''One that exist is theCheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker'' which can be a typical representation of a vault. Here`s what I found about the definition of vault according to a website : http://www.answers.com/topic/vault #An arched structure, usually of masonry or concrete, serving to cover a space. #An arched overhead covering, such as the sky, that resembles the architectural structure in form. #A room or space, such as a cellar or storeroom, with arched walls and ceiling, especially when underground. #A room or compartment, often built of steel, for the safekeeping of valuables: a bank vault. #A burial chamber, especially when underground. ''So as you can see, vault is more like an UNDER-GROUND structure that is one of the most secure in the world.'' '''Now, how do we apply such a thing in the game? Well, come to think of it...living in zero ground exposed completely to the infected is almost insane. Imagine the noise of all the shooting and what massive aggro it will cause! Plus the danger level is about double of the black zone. I think an outpost under attack should last up to 2 hours because of the noise and the danger level. So, I thought it would be much more practical to have an underground outpost. Why? In underground outposts, you don`t need super huge walls that certainly will attract obvious attention of infected. Plus the entrance to the underground is made up of extremely secure steel walls. Not even a tank should be able to blast through it. It provides one of the most secure protection in such case. However, an underground outpost would sound more like a bunker than an underground outpost. ****Let`s look at the CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN NUCLEAR BUNKER in America as a source of inspiration. ''Cheyenne Mountain was designed for a 30 megaton nuclear explosion! within 1.0 nmi (1.2 mi; 1.9 km). The bunker is 5.1 acres (2.1 ha) tunneled within part of a spur of the Cheyenne Mountain massif at the Rocky Mountains' eastern "Front Range". The bunker's standby centers are controlled by a NORAD division and support services are provided by Air Force Space Command's 721st Mission Support Group. In fact, they reserved certain people to stay in the place during 21 December 2012'' in case the world really ended but it didn`t.**** An underground outpost can be expanded more securely unlike military forts or Stockades. Because, the presence of other building on ground levels and extremely high density of infected may hinder the expansion of a holdout. But in a underground world, you have absolutely no zombies to worry about and with expert engineers, the outpost can be expanded slowly if necessary. So, now with the idea....think of a name. Most of all the names of the outpost are SHORT and logic. To say a fortress may sound nice but not if if the outpost was underground. Still, I can`t really think of one. Cassandra`s Vault? Does not sound good enough. Vault Cassandra? Sounds weird on first sight but kinda nice. It`s just an idea I like to propose, so don`t take it seriously :) --Sangreal7 (talk) 11:25, April 25, 2013 (UTC) Think about what you're suggesting for a moment, and look at the timeline of the game (and forget for a bit the inability to keep a story straight or actually find out what's solid and coming from the game with the degree of fanwank that goes on here at pages that are supposed to hold story content from the game)... The virus is released in France, and shortly thereafter, random infected eventually make it overseas to the United States, to the random-ass town of Fairview through cars, buses, etc, and succumb there, infecting people and spreading the disease. I'm not sure how often you've involved yourself in the construction of even a small bunker, but even a little one-room job is something that can take days. If you have machinery. That runs. And has fuel. It's kind of hard to imagine that some random civilians in the worst-hit part of the city (that hasn't even been confirmed yet) would strike on the idea of, "Hey, as society is falling apart around us, let's use our complete lack of tools and knowledge to construct a massive underground facility suitable for use as both habitation, a marketplace, and junkyard by literally thousands of people." Now... with the actual factual content... your problem is that you're getting your information from Wikipedia. Cheyenne mountain took nearly five years to complete, with an active infrastructure, and the assets of the US military, and a number of large-scale civilian excavation and construction companies. The work itself required the construction of a small town outside of the facility for the hundreds and hundreds of people working on clearing the grounds, blasting, and excavating before construction could even begin. All of this was, of course, done in the absence of a horrific virus infecting 95% of the workers, and turning them into killing machines that attack the ones remaining. One could assume that would make things a bit more difficult. Now, all that said... in the absence of solid confirmation of another OP, or even good ideas here, wouldn't it make more sense, instead of posting random pictures, hosting terrible blurbs on content that doesn't exist, and spouting unrelated content on a wiki frontpage... to simply wait and base the wiki page on content that's added to the game if and when it's added to the game? Griever0311 (talk) 14:38, April 25, 2013 (UTC) @Griever, one time I had a similar idea, although mine was more of a geofront. Needless to say a geofront is TOTALLY UNREALISTIC, so that went nowhere. I am amazed that I didn't thought of a "massive bunker". I also love how you even focused on the names! BTW, had to erase some stuff because it was getting ridicolous the amount of stuff we written (although constructive). I also like the fact how we went from Kuratas, to something more realistic. And even the outpost is going to be chaning more. Thanks to everyone who has participated so far.Zith Melle (talk) 18:54, April 25, 2013 (UTC) i approve of Vault Cassandra Kim leex (talk) 19:19, April 25, 2013 (UTC) No, Zith, you're misunderstanding me. I'm not supporting the idea of an underground facility. I'm saying it's utterly ludicrous, given the timetable, location, circumstances, the rampant disease, violence, and lack of materiel and machinery. I'm also not the one who wrote the section above mine; that's delineated under Sangreal7. Griever0311 (talk) 19:53, April 25, 2013 (UTC) @noooooo... lol Zith Melle (talk) 15:13, April 26, 2013 (UTC) About the suggested outpost title containing the name "Cassandra" I just really wanted to clear this up, because this particular name suggestion for the "fifth outpost" that you guys are discussing was originally made by me. The name I suggested was "Waystation Cassandra". The definition of the word "waystation" when it is used in a figurative sense is given by Wiktionary as "A service area or temporary lodging used during a longer journey." And this is exactly what I had in mind when I suggested that name for the theoretical "Fifth outpost". If you go to the blog section on my User profile here on the Wiki, you'll find an entry in which I've been laying out my idea for what a fifth outpost in Fairview would look like. From my description in that blog entry, you should probably be able to see why I would refer to it as a "waystation": It's made out to be not so much an outpost as much as a small (yet well-fortified) rest stop for survivors, with all the conveniences of a main outpost. To address the length of the name (I couldn't help noticing Sangreal7's comment about the current outposts all having short, logical names), technically, it's not that much longer than the names of the other outposts-- only about a few letters longer at most, if you compare it to the two main outposts with the longest names: Nastya's Holdout Waystation Cassandra Dogg's Stockade Like I said, it's not that much longer. ;) By the way, from a more proactive stance (i.e. trying to implement the idea into the game), it's technically possible to create an imitation "main outpost" anywhere in the Inner City. All you would have to do is gather some friends together on the game, load up on barricading supplies, travel to any city block with three or more buildings clustered in one section of the block, and then barricade at least three of said buildings with help from the aforementioned group of friends. At that point, you would effectively have a small "communal outpost" comprised of several personal outposts (which would probably each be shared by two or more players), which would have enough players in it to potentially form a viable marketplace economy between each of the personal outposts in the grouping. Obviously, you would still be limited to the functions that are available in a PO (i.e. there would be no Yard, Gambling Den, or Notice Hall-- though you could still access the forums using the Forum button at the top of the Outpost page), and you would have to have some means of bringing in a continuous supply of barricading equipment so you could re-barricade whenever you left any of the PO's, but in theory, you could potentially keep a small communal outpost like that up and running indefinitely. The reason I bring this particular notion up is because it could actually serve as a very effective "stepping stone" in convincing AdminPwn to add a fifth outpost. Here's why: If someone were to take a large group of players (say, 15 to 20 players; 10 would be the absolute minimum), go down into the End Zone, create a communal outpost using the method I described above, and keep it going for a long enough time, I think there would be a very good chance that if AdminPwn found out about it, he'd possibly be impressed enough with the resilience of said communal outpost, that he'd actually establish a fifth permanent outpost near the End Zone (possibly even in the exact group of buildings where the communal outpost was established!). Think about it-- AdminPwn has made other ideas official parts of the game before: * The Student class was made into an actual choice of professsion for new players at the request of several players in the game. * AdminPwn changed the name of the LE item "Pumpkin Mask" to "Pumpkin Head" after a player in the forums pointed out that it technically wasn't a mask because it covered the entire head of a character. * Most recently: When the End Zone was expanded last year, and we saw two new types of mutant infected introduced to it, I was the one who suggested the name "Rumbler" for those big hulking mutants with the stubby arms and tiny heads. And AdminPwn indicated that he approved of the name (and made it canon) when those particular mutants were referred to as Rumblers in the mission briefing for the "Rumbler Samples" mission in Fort Pastor. People on the game often say that AdminPwn never takes their ideas or suggestions into consideration. To those people, I say "bullshit". We DO have the ability to influence how the game works out, and while discussing it here on the Wiki is certainly a constructive way to lay out the groundwork for how a suggested addition to the game would work, I figured that I should point out that we can encourage this particular idea to actually be implemented by actively creating a communal outpost in the End Zone. It's not a required task, just an idea to think about. ;) PS: One other important thing I need to point out: Zith Melle, while I am personally more or less in support of this "fifth outpost" idea, I think you should remove the content you put on the page regarding the support for this particular idea (specifically the pictures you inserted at the bottom of the page and described as indicators of support for the idea). That huge number of votes in the User-Made poll was NOT specifically for the idea of a fifth outpost-- it was for the idea of adding a more difficult region to the city beyond the End Zone. In fact, the "partial support for a fifth outpost" option was an entirely separate vote choice further down the list of choices on the poll, and (unfortunately) it clearly'' did ''not receive a very substantial amount of support (less than 6% of all the votes on that poll overall were for the idea of a fifth outpost). In addition, the concept of a fifth outpost being included with the "Ground Zero" idea was simply an afterthought listing a fifth outpost as possibly being an additional part of the Ground Zero idea. Now, I am NOT saying any of this to imply that the "fifth outpost" idea is futile, nor am I implying that nobody was supporting it. What I'm saying is that it received a MINOR amount of support on that poll, and the page should describe it as such, because the way it's currently describing the support for the idea of a fifth outpost is technically untrue. If people who voted on the first choice in that poll get the wrong idea about what they were voting for, it might ultimately end up causing a lot of unpleasant drama, not just on the Wiki but possibly on the DF forums as well. In particular, I'm worried about how the I&S Nazis will react if one of them sees the claim of major support for this idea-- frankly speaking, those guys can be complete and utter bitches when it comes to suggestions for things that are on the I&S forum's DNSL list (additional outposts are included on that list, which is why discussion and revision of this idea is being done here on the wiki-- the DNSL doesn't apply here because the DF Wiki is a separate site from the actual DF game site). TL;DR You need to remove the pictures claiming that there's a ton of support for the fifth outpost idea because that's technically not true. XP ShadowMage ~ DF Wiki Admin & semi-1337 SWAGmaster (talk) 19:08, April 26, 2013 (UTC) It shall be done. Zith Melle (talk) 03:01, May 1, 2013 (UTC)